Moment with Prof. Niyi Osundare
PENDULUM: Who is the man called Niyi Osundare?
Prof. Niyi Osundare: I am a human being, a teacher, a writer, a parent, a very political animal, a deeply passionate person. I say it all the time: Passion is one of the ruling principles of my life, of my actions and my consciousness. Unless I am really passionate about something, I don’t get it done, and if I cannot do anything well, I don’t want to attempt it. What do I mean by passion? It’s a deep feeling of earnestness, of conviction, of commitment, of engagement, mixed with a little bit of anger, because anger is also necessary – constructive, regenerative anger, the type of anger that makes it impossible for you to become complacent in the face of evil. The kind of anger that actually gets you reacting almost impulsively when you see something wrong around you. It’s a kind of anger that makes you feel hungry even when you are well-fed, when you encounter an unaccountably hungry person. So, it’s a kind of anger which translates into compassion, sympathy and in the last analysis, which shares the same borders with empathy i.e. fellow feeling.
Why is it that way? Maybe because of my childhood experiences; I had parents who were very passionate; my father was an uncommonly, hardworking farmer, a singer, and a song-composer. Baba used to tell us that a normal human being is either sleeping or working! And that was the life he lived. My father was a people person: gregarious, very sociable and he was a conversationalist. He was a very intelligent person who often boasted that had he had the advantage of Western education, he would have been a Pofeso (Professor). He is a constant reference in my creative and scholarly works; hence he was the dedicatee of Village Voices, my second book of poems; he was the major trigger of Horses of Memory, my 9th book of poems, and a prominent feature in my essay, ‘Homage to the Book’. He was a passionate lover of education and the cultivation of the mind.
My mother is the reflective kind of person, quiet, tolerant and intensely perceptive. She is the one to whom I dedicated The World is an Egg, “Iyaonisuuru” (the epitome of patience). This time last week, I was still with her, and she and I talked from night to the wee hours of the following morning. Surely the patient eye will see the nose – oju to ma ri’ mu ni lati farabale. I see myself as a balance between these two people. Also, the Yoruba community, the Nigerian community in those days, when we were growing up; these communities were very healthy, and they were human and relatively more humane. There were problems here and there but Nigerian societal values were in the right place. Violence was relatively rare. There was honesty in those days, and it was a time when Nigerians had a sense of shame too; a time when the world was not ruled and dominated by money. It was the era of Iwalewa (character is beauty) and when the Yoruba talked confidently about Omoluabi (the embodiment of culture, character, and integrity). Those were the ideals on which we were raised. Education was highly extolled.
PENDULUM: Thank you very much, sir. It was indeed a beautiful beginning that shaped you into what you have become today. Well, my next question is, what do you think as a possible solution to the ever-recurring Nigerian problems ever since we gained our independence?
Prof. Niyi Osundare: Well, if you look at all these problems: corruption of all kinds, embezzlement of public funds, mediocrity and the toleration of incompetence, unemployment, robbery – armed and unarmed, kidnapping, instabilities of different kinds, you will notice that they all come from the same source. I will say between 1960 when we attained independence and January 1966 when we experienced our first military coup, Nigeria was much more organised and peaceful. Our politics was turbulent quite all right but the kind of corruption we see today didn’t exist then. Recall the stinking mess of the so-called subsidy scandal, and our rulers’ silence about it all. Our country has gone off from its mooring. The thief is now the chief. In the past, it was dishonourable and extremely shameful to be a thief or to be caught stealing. Today, it’s a heroic thing to do. You see, you can’t get anything done today, without oiling the palm of certain people; it is terrible. It is corruption that is behind the perennial air crashes that we have been having, the morbid state of our hospitals, our decrepit educational institutions, and the state of our roads.
What about the Otedola- and-Lawan Bribegate; is anyone still talking about that? You-Lawan-me-I-Otedola-you! Every aspect of our lives is tarnished by this kind of corruption. Way out? Hmm! It is difficult to propose one solution but one thing I know is that we the people of this country have to get more interested in the way we are ruled.
“Nigeria is a large, bountifully endowed country headed by people that are only smart at the wrong things, and this is why we are the way we are”.
We are ruled by kleptocrats of the foulest kind. From 1960 to the present time, there is no leader I can really boast about as being mentally and politically equipped to lead a complex country like Nigeria. A man like Chief Awolowo had that capacity, but he was prevented to winning power at the centre where it mattered most; so his genius was restricted to the then Western Region. And we can still see and feel what he made of that Region. All the others have soaked us in the pit of corruption.
“If you stole billions in Abuja, and EFCC was looking for you, just run back to your village. You will be protected there. The villagers will see you not as a thief but as a hero because you have brought back their own share of the national loot.”
So this is really it.
Who is the corrupt person and what is corruption? In Nigeria, corruption is celebrated and extolled. In other parts of the world, say Thailand or China or North Korea, you steal public funds, no matter how small, your head will be chopped off and your family will fall into disgrace. But in Nigeria, well, Wole Soyinka had said it all in Ethical Revolution. (Sings)…You thief 10 kobo, they put you for prison. You thief 10 million na patriotism! Dem go give you chieftaincy and national honour! You thief even bigger, dem go say na rumour! Monkey dey work o, baboon dey chop! Sweet pounded yam, someday e go stop! I love my country I no go lie…
So, this is the terribly warped value system we have in Nigeria. We have no leaders in this country; only rulers and brigands of the foulest and most depraved variety. Most of those who rule us are criminals who should be in jail, not in the statehouse: they rig themselves into office and when they get there, they loot our treasury; they steal our electoral rights which we have as citizens and they steal our future. Ask any of your legislators, the millions they receive every quarter as constituency allowances, how is the money spent and besides, where is the constituency?
There is money in this country, in fact, Nigeria is awash with so much money, but the money is in the hands of a few and so, there is no money to spend on public infrastructure and that is why our roads have decayed, airplanes are dropping from the sky, the hospitals have become mortuaries and many of our schools have no roofs, no windows, our universities have no labs, no books. I have never seen a country that is so rich while the majority of its citizens are so poor. Solution? As Shakespeare says in Julius Caesar, ‘the fault, not in our stars, but in ourselves that we are underlings.’ The Nigerian people must take their fate in theft own hands. This is what I have been saying basically in all my interventions in the past 30 years. The solution is us, in us. The right kind of education we should be prepared to ask questions.
A leader is not God. We venerate all these rulers too much. No, this veneration of power has to stop. Nigerians are too docile, too apathetic, and too indolent about their rights. As long as we remain that way, our situation is going to get worse. Our Kabiyesi (who-can-challenge-him/her-has-not-been-born) Syndrome has got to stop. Democracy cannot thrive in a land where the ruled are perennially on the knees.
PENDULUM: How do you un-wind in difficult situations?
Prof. Niyi Osundare: I reach out for a good book. Poetry, in particular, essays or passages from a good novel; I listen to good music, find a good company. Writing is so lonesome and if you are not careful, you will become a recluse. But when you are in a company of like minds, you begin to trade ideas. Ours is a world of ideas. I don’t socialise all that much. I abhor our ‘owambe’ culture. A bottle of Guinness Stout or beer once in a very blue moon…My indulgences are few. I have been called frugal and ascetic and I think I am a little bit of both. I love music, dancing, and can really shake a leg (Laugh). I go to the theatre for a good play or movie but I am not an Owambe person at all. Life is too precious, to be wasted on endless partying and the donning of asoebi. Asoebi (communal uniform); sisesise and afefeyeye (endless, excessive partying). These are aspects of an otherwise rich Yoruba culture that I have never liked. We spend too much time on jollification.
PENDULUM: Well…that you were involved in a natural accident in the US. How were you able to manage that period sir?
Prof. Niyi Osundare: Oh Bola, you are trying to be euphemistic. It wasn’t an accident. It was a disaster. It was a tsunami. It was an unforgettable day. That was Katrina, August 29, 2005. It happened in New Orleans where I live, and where I still am. On that day, Hurricane Katrina came with a wind speed of over 100 miles per hour. The levees collapsed and the water of the large Lake Pontchartrain poured into the city. We had nine feet of water in our house we lost everything we owned, and but for our neighbour who rescued us after-two days, my wife and I would have perished. “My wife and I took refuge in our attic for two days without food, water, and sufficient air, until help came and we were boated out.”
Then we were moved from one refugee camp to another until we landed in Birmingham, Alabama. We left our home without shoes. All we had was gone. But somehow, we survived. I lost my library, my manuscripts, all my records… My family lost all they owned. Many of these losses are irreplaceable. But we are happy we survived. I was even well enough to sing about it all in City without People: the Katrina Poems, published two years ago.
There is a poem called ‘Stanley meets Mutesa’ by David Rubadiri. From there, I discern that we are not brave in Nigeria and we value their colour more, who they are and what they have in them. So there is always this issue of inferiority complex.
That is a part of our colonial legacy. One of the lasting impacts of colonialism is ingraining inferiority complex in the colonised, and the White people did this very successfully. First, they presented their religion as superior; then they displaced our languages with their own; next, they spread the superstition about black inferiority. Let’s face it: the Black person is of the world today, but not FULLY in the world. It is we that will have to break all our shackles, physical or otherwise, build the confidence we need to walk head-high around the world; re-humanize ourselves and secure our future. But all this will not fall on our laps. There is a lot of work to be done; a lot of educating and learning to do; a lot of honesty of purpose to develop. The Dark Continent myth has to be exploded. Quite often, people are as good as they think they are. Our fate is in our own hands.
PENDULUM: On a final note sir, what piece do you have for young aspiring writers?
Prof. Niyi Osundare: Eye on the prize. Set your mind. Steady your soul. Be very conscious of the task you have set before yourself. Work hard, work hard, work very hard and think well. For you to be a good writer, you have to be a good reader. Read all kinds of books and all kinds of things. Be honest with yourself, be proud of what you do and never be arrogant. No truly intelligent person can afford to be arrogant because, the more you know, the more you discover you need to know. Never you get complacent. The moment one begins to feel that one has arrived, the beginning of the end has also set in. Then, stubborn courage. For us to create in the kind of environment we have in Nigeria, we have to be really stubborn. Virtually, everything militates against creativity, against your soul; so you have to swim against the tide, as it were, for you to be able to create. You have to correct your own values. Mind over money; value over vanity. There are many things in life that money cannot buy. Dare to be different. Great artists, great thinkers are hardly made in the crowd. Learn to stand on your own – without forgetting that you also belong; without forgetting your societal and communal obligations. Create time to think; create time to reflect, to stand and stare. And finally, don‘t let anything happen to your anger, your capacity to interrogate, to resist; your concern for justice and readiness to fight for it; readiness for the defence of your humanity and the humanity of others. In the last analysis, it is not just the beauty of your expression that matters, important as that is; it is the life-affirming truth of your vision. Dare to be different. Dare to dream positively.
PENDULUM: Thank you so much for granting us this moment with you.
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